Changing Change: with Darrell Haemer

"Change isn't something that we always need to deal with or fix. It's something that we need to engage with and embrace because it is actually the tool that we use throughout our entire lives all day, every day to get things done. "  - Darrell Haemer, Author of Changing Change.

Get Darrell's Book Here:    https://amzn.to/2YLwL6o
Darrell's Website: http://darrell.haemer.co/

Visit us at www.SquareOneShow.com

One of the biggest things we've learned, not just in the last couple of years, but in our entire careers and lives is: one of the most valuable things that we have been given is the ability to listen to other people's stories. We get to meet so many interesting and awesome people. And when we listen to other people's stories, we learn that we can identify with them, we can learn from their mistakes and learn from what they're doing. And so that's a bit of a new direction for this show. We want to take this podcast and bring you a lot of those stories that we feel can have a huge impact, not only just on our lives, but on your lives as well. 

 

Transcript

Copy

Speaker 1 0:00

Change isn't something that we always need to deal with or fix. It's something that we need to engage with and embrace because it is actually the tool that we use throughout our entire lives all day, every day to get things done.

Speaker 2 0:14

You are now listening

Speaker 3 0:16

to the square one show.

Speaker 2 0:27

[inaudible] hey everyone. Welcome to the square one show. So glad you're here. I'm here with my husband, Dave. Hey Dave. Hey everyone. So Dave and I have been through a lot of changes these last couple of years of moving to Virginia and then moving back. I think one of our last podcast was about the big move. How's a little while, but it's been, it's been a couple of years of huge, huge life transitions and there's been so many things that we've learned along the way that , that we'd like to share personally. But we know that you guys are going through a lot of huge life transitions and changes. Yeah.

Speaker 4 1:01

So I think one of the biggest things we've learned, not just in the last couple of years, but in our entire careers and lives is , uh , one of the most valuable things that we have been given is , uh, the ability to listen to other people's stories and to get to meet so many interesting and awesome people. And how when we listen to other people's stories, we learned so much from that we could identify with them, we can , uh , just learn from their mistakes or learn from what they're doing. Right? And so that's a bit of a new direction. We want to take this podcast and bring you a lot of those stories that we feel can have a huge impact, not only just on our lives, but on your lives as well.

Speaker 3 1:39

And you know, there's podcasts did start off as start up business, you know, how do you start up a business? And that's great. But I think as we've gone into these stories, we've realized that there's a deeper story underlying all of this. And so I think that as we discover what square one show is all about and the kind of material in the interviews that we want to bring you, it's more about the deeper story. So yes, a lot of people that we're going to interview is going to be starting up. New businesses are making huge life transitions, but it's not just small business.

Speaker 4 2:09

Yeah. I think when we first started the square one show, the idea of the square one was where are you starting your business? But I think it's pivoting a little bit to square one is actually who , who are you at the center, at the core of who you are when you start. And we want to hear those stories from people, what motivates them, what makes them who they are and how it helps them to make decisions about their life and the transitions and the things that are going through and how they deal with that , uh, as it comes out of the core of who they are.

Speaker 3 2:39

So let's dive into today. We have our friend Darryl Haimer who we actually interviewed a few months ago.

Speaker 4 2:46

Um , it's pretty appropriate cause Daryl has actually written a book on change. And so we've been talking about change. Yeah. And so because we've experienced change , the podcast is going through a change. Uh , it's appropriate.

Speaker 3 2:58

Yeah. So here's the interview with Daryl .

Speaker 1 3:00

I hope you enjoy hearing his story and then hearing what he's passionate about and how it can help you. Daryl , we are so excited about having you on the square one show this morning. How are you? I'm doing great. Thanks so much for having me. Appreciate the opportunity.

Speaker 3 3:14

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I want to dive into what you do. You know, the creative design process. How did you get into this?

Speaker 1 3:22

Yeah, I actually started with graphic design and media through web design. Uh , in early high school I started tinkering around with basic html. That was back in the day , uh, when, when it was really just all hard coding. Uh, we barely even had CSS at that point. So I started tinkering around with web design with some of my friends in high school. And from that I just started doing image editing, a little bit of graphic creation. And then that, you know, that flows into video and interactive media and the whole bit. So I just kept sort of pushing forward into more new things that I've found.

Speaker 3 4:00

Well, I think it's fascinating that you're an industry that has been a lot of change over the last 15, 20 years. So do you think that that has had an impact on why you're writing a book about change or that you wrote a book about change?

Speaker 1 4:14

Uh, quite possibly. You know, there's no question that it has a incredible change. It's all attached to the , the world of technology. And so as that changes , uh , what we do as designers and how we do it changes what it looks like, changes. And , um , I think that's part of what draws me to the field is the fact that I'm , I'm not often doing the same thing for very long , uh , because either what the clients want has changed or the technology that we used to do it changes. So I liked that constant newness , uh , that this field offers.

Speaker 4 4:51

Darryl , you're a fairly new, as an entrepreneur, correct? Like this, you had a , a career job before and , uh, kind of stepped out into this business that you started. You'd talk to us a little bit about what that process was like. And I know that was a big change for you and , uh, making that leap.

Speaker 1 5:07

Yeah, definitely. Uh, yeah, I was in a , I was director of communication for five years , uh, which was , uh , largely, you know, design and media work as well, but , uh, more focused on communication work than I ever had been before. And so deciding to take the entrepreneurial route was definitely knew a big risk, a big unknown for me. But I , I had decided that , um, there was , there was something in the work world, some, some kind of work that I felt I needed to be doing that I wasn't able to do where I was at . And so I said, you know, if I don't do this, this, despite all the risk and discomfort of it, if I don't do this, I'm not going to be happy with myself. You know, I'm going to feel like I'm missing something. I'm not doing something I should be doing. So I just had to take the leap. And uh, you know, everyday is a learning curve. Since that point I'm like, okay, well this didn't work. Let's try it again. This didn't work. Let's try it again. I think that's most of what , uh, entrepreneurial endeavors are really is failing and trying again. Right.

Speaker 4 6:15

Yeah. It seems like there's no real set formula. It's more just getting your hands dirty and trying to figure it out each day. That's been your experience too.

Speaker 1 6:24

Absolutely. 100%. It's kind of a , a big skin. Uh , Bang . You have to constantly remind yourself of that. Mistakes and failures are not , uh , the end game. It's not the end of the day. The whole point is to learn from it and uh , do what you can with it. Then

Speaker 3 6:44

can you talk about any specific moments or specific things that had happened where you thought, I can't do this or you know, this big obstacle that you had to face?

Speaker 1 6:55

Yeah. Um, well, it's tough to choose one really, but,

Speaker 3 6:59

huh .

Speaker 1 7:01

No , I , I think, yeah, there's, there truly are so many, but I think one challenge in particularly that I've had is , uh , dealing with the value and cost of my services and products , uh, for a couple of different reasons. One, I think it's, it's just hard to know, you know , what your products and services are worth and who, you know, who will be willing to pay what for what. And uh , so it's difficult to find that balance, but it's also , uh , for me it has been challenged because I do a number of different things. I don't just do graphic design for print or I don't just do a , you know, web work. I really do many different things that tend to draw different price ranges for different kinds of work. And so I , I've , I have found myself constantly changing , um, the cost of my products and services, you know, per project and per type of work and per client. And so that has been a challenge to try to figure out how all that works and what will work successfully.

Speaker 3 8:12

And how does [inaudible] all these design websites, you know, I know that you do some logo design and have you seen a big difference in how these design sites have kind of taken over the industry and, and really drove prices down? Yeah, definitely. Do you deal with that?

Speaker 1 8:31

Yeah, I have seen that. And I think the primary , uh , difference between what I do and what sites like that typically do. And this is what I try to focus on with clients, is you can get a logo, which is a , like a visual icon or a visual representation of a name of a company. Or You can create a logo that represents the meaning of a company . And I, for me, the meaning that you pack into a logo into a brand is very important. I believe a logos should not only be a distinctive visual mark , uh, but it should truly be a visual that that means the same qualities and characteristics that a company represents. And I think that's something that , uh, these kind of mass production logo websites lack , uh , you know, you can definitely get a logo from them that will be a visual mark and you know, it'll be technically sound and it'll work fine. Uh, but the likelihood of getting a logo from sites like that at that price point that are truly great logos that we have seen be so successful. You know, Coke Cola, McDonald's ATM and t Kodak, like all these things that we recognize worldwide, you're not gonna get that , uh , by cranking out a logo in half an hour. Hmm .

Speaker 3 9:58

I totally agree. Totally agree. And so where do you think the breakdown is as far as when to use a premade logo compared to when you feel like you need to have something completely custom made?

Speaker 1 10:12

Sure.

Speaker 3 10:13

What would be your recommendation for someone who's kind of struggling between the two of those?

Speaker 1 10:17

Yeah. If, if you have, let's say, a temporary project that you need a logo for, this isn't going to be a lasting thing. Maybe it's just a short term, a campaign or you know, I don't know what it might be, but something that isn't going to be permanent than that kind of a depth in your logo might not be necessary. Uh, and that , that could be fine. You know, it really depends on your ultimate goals. I guess. If you, if you truly needed to appeal to people, if you need it to be a substantial part of your brand, if it needs to be a lasting mark that's meaningful and distinctive, then it's probably going to be worth investing in a logo that's, that's going to carry some weight. Uh, but you know, at the end of the day, it's usually about economy. If you just don't have the budget for it or, you know , you feel like it's not gonna be a return on your investment, then you have to do what you have to do. But I guess my, my feeling is you should always try and get the best that you can for , for what you're doing.

Speaker 3 11:22

Gotcha. No, that's, that's awesome. Thank you for sharing that because I know a lot of people struggle with that or some people just spend way too much and they should have spent something else, you know, at that point or they should have spent a lot more. Yeah, we see that too. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 4 11:39

So are you saying like is your struggle, is it more a, what you value yourself as or what you think people are willing to pay? Like is it more, right? Do you struggle with , uh, not feeling you bring enough value

Speaker 3 11:54

or is it more just trying to find the sweet spot of what people are willing to pay? Or is it both?

Speaker 1 11:59

Sure. I think , uh, that's, that's funny actually, cause I think on the good days , uh , it's a challenge of finding what other people will be willing to pay. And on the bad days it's more of a struggle of determining what I'm worth. Uh , yeah, so ideal . I do deal with both. Uh, and uh, it just fluctuates. I think like everything else in the entrepreneurial world, it's, it's a bit of a wave that you ride.

Speaker 3 12:25

Absolutely. Well, I know in the entrepreneurial world it's all about change. You know, things are happening faster and faster. And so we really have to learn how to change better and faster. And I love that you wrote this book called changing change for those who prefer to just keep things the same. So tell me just a little bit about what inspired you to write this.

Speaker 1 12:47

Yeah. After writing, this was actually after writing the book, finishing it, I realized that I actually been thinking about this for almost 15 years now. Uh , how, and by this I mean thinking about how people are resistant to change , uh, through various jobs that I've had over the years working in different industries. Uh , I've realized that the way that I have been reacting and thinking about change has been different than what I've been seeing in many of the people around me. And I finally made that realization that, wait a second, I did . They're not thinking the same thing about this change as what I'm thinking. They're , they're not doing the same thing with it. That then what I'm trying to do with it. And , uh, that became , began to become clear to me and I've thought that this might be something that I need to offer, something that I need to think about and talk about because there's something that's happening here with me that I'm not seeing around me. And so the , the more I thought about it , it really boiled down to this concept of change. Like, what's happening here is every time there's a change, everyone around me is doing this or saying this and I'm feeling something different. And so as that really calm and Ilic over all these years, I started to create kind of a language for myself and started to galvanize that a little bit down to this point where it became this book.

Speaker 3 14:27

That's fantastic. So can you share with us just a little bit about what's in the book? Obviously we need to get the book and read and read through that, but is there a couple of things that really stand out that are practical tips that you can give someone who is kind of struggling with keeping up with change?

Speaker 1 14:44

Yeah, absolutely. I , the main premise of the book is that change is inherently good and that is opposed to how we've defined it as a culture , uh , largely which is change is a challenge or a necessary evil that we are constantly having to like work around or work through or overcome. So that's the premise of the book and I, and that really does underlying , uh , everything through the entire book. And I, it's the, I think it's the core concept that people need to understand. Um, and I guess, yeah, some of the examples that I use in the book are headlines just like that. You know, what are some tips that we can give people to be able to really deal with change or overcome change. But the problem with that is we're still approaching change as a problem. Uh, you know, what are some tips to use that we can overcome, change or be able to deal with change better? But the reality is change isn't something that we always need to deal with or fix. It's something that we need to engage with and embrace because it is actually , um, the tool that we use throughout our entire lives all day, every day to get things done. So I realized that , um, that might be a little bit of a complex concept for, you know , a brief discussion like this cause that's what half of the book is about. But that's kind of a fundamental concept that's in the book. Uh , and I, and I think that's maybe the most important thing that people can take away from it is that change is not something that we're trying to fix or overcome, but rather it's something that we need to change our beliefs about, to believe that it's good and beneficial.

Speaker 4 16:33

So that's more changing our perspective about what changes.

Speaker 1 16:38

Absolutely. All right.

Speaker 4 16:40

Yeah, that's fast . And you , so you wrote this more to clarify your own perspective about it. Like you were having a hard time wrapping your head around it . Is that you're saying ,

Speaker 1 16:51

uh ,

Speaker 4 16:51

it Kinda something that was not eating at you, but something that, that you called it a , that's not a problem, but you decided to take it on to explain it better. And , um, so this is something that you've thought a lot about, obviously.

Speaker 1 17:05

Yes, definitely. Yeah. You know, it took a number of years for me to really flesh out the idea in my mind and begin to understand it in a more organized and concrete way that I would be able to communicate. So the book is really approaching the problem that , uh, I believe too many people are viewing change in a negative light. And so I want to help redefine change for those people.

Speaker 4 17:33

Were you one of those people originally, did you, did you change your perspective on it or was this always your position?

Speaker 1 17:40

Yeah, I would say not , not always, definitely not always, but probably, probably about 15 ago, my, my approach toward change began to shift, you know, and has continued to shift , uh, uh, over the last 10 or 15 years. Uh, and you know, obviously I'd like to say that, you know, my view is totally, that change is great now. Um , but it's always a work in progress. You know, it's something I need to remind myself of regularly. I find myself referring back to my own book and I'm like, wait, I'm not sure if it's supposed to work this way, but

Speaker 4 18:16

all right , so there wasn't any one big , uh, event or moment , uh , that caused you to shift. It was more just like you said, our process they've been going through.

Speaker 1 18:27

Yeah, that's correct.

Speaker 3 18:29

And I think that's really encouraging to hear because there's so many things out there that it's, you know, get rich quick and become an entrepreneur overnight and, you know, change, change overnight, go from this to this. But I think now that we know, we understand, we see that lie and it's really nice that you've written a book that really gets to the heart and the truth.

Speaker 1 18:51

Absolutely. Absolutely. I , uh, explained specifically in the book that this is not a three step program. Uh , this, this is not a 10 tips kind of book. This, this is a book that unpacks the concept of change. It strips away all the baggage that we've attached to the idea of change. And it redefines it as simply as possible for us so that we can understand what change truly is and what role change plays in our daily life. Like what does that actually look like? What are we missing, you know, about change in our daily life.

Speaker 3 19:29

That's awesome. So Darrell , as you look into the future, what kinds of people do you want to be aligning yourself with and working with and what kind of work do you want to see yourself changing into doing?

Speaker 1 19:43

Uh, I w I would love to, I'm very passionate about the work world. And so the, you know, that is like all the people out there who go to work every day and how we work. And so what I would really love to see is to find more influence in that world. So people who are leading other people, managing other people, I would love for them to grab on to this book and really engage with it and bring their teams along with them. So that they can work together as teams engaging with change in new ways so that they can work more effectively. And in addition to my book having that influence, I would love to see opportunities , uh, to be able to speak with and do direct terrain, direct training with teams and leaders. Uh , cause I would love to be able to expand on these ideas and bring it to people more directly.

Speaker 3 20:41

That's fantastic. Well they're all , thank you so much for being on the show with us today. We really appreciate your time. Andy . If before we go, could you please let people know how they can get ahold of you?

Speaker 1 20:52

Sure. Uh , they can find me online at hammer dot c o that's h a e m e r.com . Uh , all my contact info is in there either through the design site or the consulting site. If they can email me there , that's probably the best way to get, get in touch with me at this point. That's great. That's simple. And then where can people get the book? Yeah, you can get the book on Amazon or Barnes and noble a , it's going to be available at Powells books as well. Uh , or you might be able to find it at the local places. If you're any rape ea .

Speaker 3 21:28

Cool. Love it. Again, the name of the book is changing change for those who prefer to just keep things the same by Darryl humor. Thank you. Thank you again so much, Darryl , for being on the show with us.

Speaker 1 21:40

Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

Speaker 3 21:43

Hey, thanks again for joining us on the square one show. We hope you found this conversation helpful and encouraging. We like to stay in touch with our friends, so head over to [inaudible] dot com enter your email address and we'll let you know in the next episode release . Until next time, this is Dave and Jessica Lewis. Have a beautiful week.

Speaker 2 22:08

[inaudible] .